The transcript of an IM exchange with an Australian friend(?) whose name is changed for privacy. The bold emphasis was added later to highlight my main points. :
aussie [10:37 A.M.]: Hola
Ramskates [10:37 A.M.]: hi
aussie [10:38 A.M.]: Do you know how many civillians were killed on september 11th?
Ramskates [10:38 A.M.]: about 3000 I think, but I'm not sure
aussie [10:38 A.M.]: 2,975
Ramskates [10:38 A.M.]: yeah
aussie [10:38 A.M.]: Know how many civillians have been confirmed killed in Afghanistan?
Ramskates [10:38 A.M.]: nope
aussie [10:38 A.M.]: 3,500+
aussie [10:39 A.M.]: Know how many in Iraq?
Ramskates [10:39 A.M.]: no
aussie [10:39 A.M.]: 33,489
Ramskates [10:39 A.M.]: the terrorists are bad
aussie [10:39 A.M.]: Know how many Coalition troops have been killed?
Ramskates [10:39 A.M.]: no
aussie [10:39 A.M.]: 2655
Ramskates [10:39 A.M.]: the terrorists have killed most all of them
aussie [10:40 A.M.]: it's not terrorism when it's against a military person
aussie [10:40 A.M.]: but yes
aussie [10:40 A.M.]: duh
Ramskates [10:40 A.M.]: I was talking about the civilians
aussie [10:41 A.M.]: actually most were killed during the bombing runs
aussie [10:41 A.M.]: basically at the end of the day you have 2,975 versus 39,644
aussie [10:42 A.M.]: that's a difference of 36,669
aussie [10:42 A.M.]: and we're not talking about money or something here
aussie [10:42 A.M.]: we're talking about humans
Ramskates [10:42 A.M.]: That's not a good comparison, actually. Too many variables that aren't taken into consideration. Not logical.
aussie [10:42 A.M.]: what variables?
aussie [10:42 A.M.]: I've only used US government estimates.
aussie [10:43 A.M.]: the maximum estimate for Iraq civillians is 37,589
aussie [10:43 A.M.]: but that few thousand difference don't affect us
Ramskates [10:44 A.M.]: the issues behind the attacks on the US and the issues of why the US retaliated. You have to stop the crazy Muslims who want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim because they want to take over the world.
aussie [10:44 A.M.]: funny that the few thousand in the first stat 9-11 do
aussie [10:44 A.M.]: yes you do
aussie [10:44 A.M.]: killing 3500 civillians in bombing runs
aussie [10:44 A.M.]: is not the way
Ramskates [10:44 A.M.]: What is?
aussie [10:45 A.M.]: better intelligence? Better funding? A foreign policy that doesn't involve assasinating democratically elected Iranian presidents?
Ramskates [10:46 A.M.]: I don't have any answers for those questions. I'm just a little old redneck momma in TN who is trying to raise my family and teach them how to be good people.
aussie [10:47 A.M.]: I know :P
Ramskates [10:47 A.M.]: LOL
aussie [10:47 A.M.]: Teach 'em that killing is wrong no matter what.
aussie [10:47 A.M.]: :P
Ramskates [10:48 A.M.]: No, if their lives and safety and freedom are being threatened then it's okay for them to support the government's wars.
Ramskates [10:48 A.M.]: Freedom is expensive.
aussie [10:48 A.M.]: lol
aussie [10:48 A.M.]: I believe killing is always wrong unless in self defence
Ramskates [10:49 A.M.]: Self defense can include 'offensive' defense.
aussie [10:49 A.M.]: of course
aussie [10:49 A.M.]: you don't have to be looking down a gun barrel
aussie [10:49 A.M.]: but dropping bombs on civillian towns
aussie [10:49 A.M.]: is not self defence
aussie [10:49 A.M.]: I think most would agree
Ramskates [10:50 A.M.]: dropping bombs on civilian towns in which the terrorists are cowardly hiding and using civilians as shields is self-defense.
Ramskates [10:51 A.M.]: are those civilians dying because of us or because of the terrorists? That's my question.
aussie [10:52 A.M.]: because of you
Ramskates [10:52 A.M.]: no, because the terrorists are using them
aussie [10:53 A.M.]: so if terrorists used your children as self defence, that's cool with you?
aussie [10:53 A.M.]: keep in mind these weren't terrorists
aussie [10:53 A.M.]: these were the Afghani government
Ramskates [10:54 A.M.]: no, that's not cool with me. But if terrorists had MY children I'd be going after them with MY OWN guns and shit and wouldn't wait for the government to step in. I'd sacrifice my life to try to save theirs.
aussie [10:55 A.M.]: and they weren't using them as shields
aussie [10:56 A.M.]: and I think you're a sick fuck if you think it's ok to kill hostages to get the hostage takers
Ramskates [10:56 A.M.]: Like I said, freedom is expensive. MANY people (innocent and otherwise) have lost their lives in the fight for freedom all over the world.
aussie [10:56 A.M.]: you've only lost freedom since this war began
aussie [10:56 A.M.]: you haven't gained any freedom
Ramskates [10:56 A.M.]: I haven't lost any freedom. What freedom have I lost?
aussie [10:57 A.M.]: The President has violated the constitution and ordered wiretaps without warrants, the patriot act has been passed, new legislation forcing communications providers to provide the government with backdoors to tap has been passed
aussie [10:58 A.M.]: but nevermind what you've lost
aussie [10:58 A.M.]: what have you gained?
aussie [10:58 A.M.]: are you any safer?
aussie [10:58 A.M.]: is safety the same thing as freedom?
Ramskates [10:58 A.M.]: The US would never have become an Independent nation if many people hadn't lost their lives in the fight for freedom.
I'm safer than I was on Sept. 10, 2001.
aussie [10:59 A.M.]: No, you're not.
Ramskates [10:59 A.M.]: My constitutional rights have not been violated. How do you know? You're not here.
aussie [10:59 A.M.]: I'll warrant I read US news more closely than you do
Ramskates [10:59 A.M.]: When I've flown I haven't worried that some [epithet removed] was going to blow up the plane.
Ramskates [10:59 A.M.]: you get biased news
aussie [11:00 A.M.]: AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA
aussie [11:00 A.M.]: Here's my regular news sources
aussie [11:00 A.M.]: Reuters, CNN, ABC, NBC, BBC, Fox News, PBS, Washington Post, TIME
aussie [11:01 A.M.]: and many many more
aussie [11:01 A.M.]: I don't watch Australian news
Ramskates [11:01 A.M.]: yes, all biased
aussie [11:03 A.M.]: what isn't biased?
aussie [11:03 A.M.]: everyone is biased
Ramskates [11:03 A.M.]: Don't you think that Iran's current push for nuclear weapons would be a much bigger threat if Sadam was still in power in Iraq? The problem with people today is that they don't look far enough into the future to see that today's hardships and sacrifices will ensure better lives in the future.
aussie [11:03 A.M.]: basic facts aren't though
aussie [11:03 A.M.]: I think you're a dumbass.
Ramskates [11:03 A.M.]: I think you're a dumbass. You have no clue as to what the real issues are.
aussie signed off at 11:04 A.M.
I don't need some Australian to tell me that my Constitutional rights have been violated by President Bush. Total bullshit. What does an Australian pussy coward know about freedom anyway? Did they fight a Revolutionary War and WIN their INDEPENDENCE from England? Hm?
When will all these cowards finally realize that FREEDOM IS FUCKING EXPENSIVE, in lives, in money, in time, in responsibility? THANK GOD that we weren't overrun by these silly slugs 230 years ago or we'd still be spending money with the freakin' Queen of England's picture on it too. And THANK GOD for the soldiers who have the COURAGE and HEART to risk their lives for all of us. Of course I am saddened that innocent civilians have died. And I THANK GOD for them and their sacrifices too.
And for the record, if you disagree with me that's fine. Just remember if you live in the FREE world there have been countless lives sacrificed for your freedom to disagree. Have a little more reverence for that, okay?