Sunday, November 05, 2006

Assumptions and Saviors

Today's Sunday Sermonette will be especially brief. We've discussed the nature of reality and whether or not we can rely on certain assumptions and if our "reality" is all there is or if there is some other reality outside of what were experience. Personally, and this is probably a religious assumption, I think that there has to be a reality outside of what we experience. It really seems pretty obvious even when you try to say that "it's all in your head" and so on because your head has to be somewhere too. ;-) There is Something Out There. I have faith in that assumption.

But in real, everyday life some assumptions are pretty dangerous. There's an old saying that goes something like, "Never assume anything because it makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'. Sometimes that's true. I try not to make many assumptions about other people because I don't like being made an ass. And in real, everyday life we need more 'evidence' to back up whatever assumptions might be considered necessary for progress. I can (hopefully) assume that my children will still love me even when I have to fuss at them. But with many people it is difficult to maintain assumptions if they don't engage in any kind of communication one way or another.

Unfortunately, at this particular moment I can't deftly weave saviorism with assumptions so just trust me that they are related somehow. Saviors are faced with a dilemma after they have done their savioring. Jesus had to be crucified. In fact most saviors seem to end up getting killed. That's kind of a shame, but I guess that's the best way to make an impact or point, well, as long as you have a sizeable audience. Without that, it's kind of a waste. And once people have been 'saved' they tend to get lazy about expressing their feelings about it. I guess maybe they've just assumed that they've been saved and that there isn't anything left to work out.

Well, I had some really brilliant points that I just can't remember now so I should probably leave it with this.

Have you hugged your Savior today?

And that's today's Sunday Sermonette.


nige said...

"Jesus had to be crucified. In fact most saviors seem to end up getting killed. That's kind of a shame, but I guess that's the best way to make an impact or point, well, as long as you have a sizeable audience. Without that, it's kind of a waste."

Jesus was a failure as a preacher because he only had a real fan club of eleven. OK there were twelve disciples officially, but Doubting Thomas and Judas the Betrayer don't count really. I give eleven not ten because I'll be generous to womankind and include Mary Magdalein as a fan.

Actually, Jesus' mother was present at his crucifixion as well, so you could say he had twelve true followers, including the two Mary's.

The Sermon on the Mount was of course listened to by a vast crowd, but that was one sermon, and the people went away afterward.

Likewise, Jesus' arrival into Jerusalem on a donkey was greeted by many. But supposedly many of those same people - admittedly excited by some bitter incitement of hatred caused by the Chief Priests of the Synagogue, after Jesus had created a riot with a whip, driving the animals and money changers out of the temple and proclaiming himself Son of God - shouted to Pilate that Jesus deserved crucifiction for heresy. (Brababas the thief who had been due to be crucified was released by Pilate at their request as per passover custom, when Pilate would have preferred to have had the criminal executed and to have released the heretic.)

As you point out, we would know nothing whatever about Jesus today if he hadn't been crucified.

It was vital to get over the message he had. It turned a routine prophet, one of hundreds, into a legend. Being Catholic, and confirmed, I really like Jesus the heretic. I'm not so keen on the "magic tricks", more the social justices and philosophy.

Jesus clearly emerges as a real character if you read the New Testament and assume nothing whatsoever has changed in the past twenty centuries since he was crucified.

His advice to his disciples to "turn the other cheek" when slapped in the face, was literally a matter of giving cheek to embarrass them in front of people for their being violent!

So much that is evident when read in context is covered up by ignorant morons who think Jesus was pro-organised religion and wasn't really a heretic (presumably they think He wasn't crucified either for being a heretic).

The deep message of Jesus is to do what's right, not what organised religion - driven by political expediency and motivated by profit, greed, egotism and selfishness - preaches.

Jesus didn't come armed with an endorsement signed by God, like a police pass, to show people. His crucifixion proved where his values lay.

Rae Ann said...

Yeah, that's pretty much what it takes.

DHammett said...

Nigel -

Jesus was no heretic. He held fast to the teachings of the scriptures (Old Testament) and frequently referenced them. His only "heresy", if you will, was not to blindly accept what the Pharisees and Sadducees preached, because they corrupted scripture and created laws of their own.

To say that His crucifixion was anything other than a selfless act for our salvation is to pervert all for which He lived and died.

And He did have God's endorsement. Take, for example, Matthew 3:17 when, just after Jesus is baptized, God says: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Or, during the transfiguration, when Jesus appeared with Moses and Elijah, when God said the same thing (Matt 17:5).

While the crucifixion certainly brought Jesus and His ministry to the forefront, to lump Him in with other prophets is to deny His divinity and purpose. The crucifixion was not a publicity grab, as you insinuate, to set him apart from other prophets. It was for our salvation. Period. Jesus' place above prophets, and all other men for that matter, is based on what He did for us...something no other man could ever achieve.

nige said...

"Jesus was no heretic. ... His only "heresy" ..." - dhammett


nige said...

"The crucifixion was not a publicity grab ... [it was] to set him apart from other prophets." - dhammett


nige said...

"To say that His crucifixion was anything other than a selfless act for our salvation is to pervert all for which He lived and died." - dhammett

That's what I said, dear Mr bigot liar dhammett (who thinks He is God himself and that sneering at other people is clever and that he won't burn in hell for eternity as a result). LOL

nige said...

The Gospel of Matthew is one of the most corrupted of the Gospels - all are in disagreement, but that one lays emphasis on supernatural stuff.

God doesn't like liars, they burn in hell. So beware you get your facts straight, Mr bigot. LOL

nige said...

"While the crucifixion certainly brought Jesus and His ministry to the forefront, to lump Him in with other prophets is to deny His divinity and purpose." - dhammett


Jesus is not lumped with other prophets, UNLIKE OTHER PROPHETS - as i EMPHASISED - Jesus was generally hated during his lifetime.

It is THIS FACT above all otherw which shows him genuine.

Also, his dying words 'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani!' don't accord with your claim of a hotline to God.

If Jesus did have infinite powers, it wouldn't be impressive that He be crucified because you'd then be wondering if He simply switched the pain off and acted during crucifixion.

So, like particle-wave duality, you have to assume (if you are a mythology believer) that Jesus had total power only on occasions and did not as a reflex action switch off the pain when on the cross.

His supernatural powers are present when he is doing good to others, but are not present when he is subjected to pain by others.

He suffers, and is not like superman who automatically bounces bullets off his chest without pain.

I'm a confirmed Catholic, and do believe in Jesus and all he stands for.

That doesn't include the controversies over how many people witnessed the resurrection (in different Gospels the number ranges from zero upward!).

It doesn't include the issue of why the Acts of the Aspostles states Jesus was "hanged on a tree" where the others state he was crucified.

Thanks for demonstrating the bigoted approach to Jesus so viciously. It really makes the point I'm making so much clearer!


Rae Ann said...

nigel, now who's being a childish name-caller? DHammett can defend himself well enough, but I would appreciate you not abusing my other visitors.

nige said...

Dear Rae Ann,

I'm not abusing him, he was a liar when he stated: "Nigel - Jesus was no heretic."

Remember, Jesus didn't shut his eyes and ears to evil. If people want to make lies about Jesus, then I'm afraid I will defend Jesus and all that he stood for.

So sorry that gentle sarcasm offends bigots so much!


DHammett said...

Nigel -

I don't normally address commenters like this, but you're an idiot. Don't get me wrong...I'm not offended by anything you've written. I just consider your comments incoherent ramblings.

"Hanged on a tree." Ever hear of a metaphor?

"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani!" translated as "My God, My God, why have You forsaken me" doesn't mean that Christ did not have a direct connection to His Father. Rather, as God made man (therefore bullets were not bouncing off him), He took all of our sins in Himself. Since the Father cannot abide sin, He turned His back on His Son while Christ was on the cross. But through Christ's resurrection, all those sins, and all of ours now, have been forgiven. Christ is reconciled and now sits at the right hand of His Father.

Christ did not turn His supernatural powers on and off like a faucet. He relinquished them upon birth. The miracles he worked were through prayer and the power of the Holy Spirit. The bible is filled with examples of Christ's disciples working miracles. I hope you're not going to try to say that they, too, had some divinity. Rather, like Christ made man, they were worked through prayer and the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'm glad you believe in Jesus and all He stands for. It demonstrates the universality of salvation for those of us who believe in Him.