Wednesday, August 16, 2006

Location, Location, Location (A New Promised Land?)

I've been pondering the Middle East problem and I think I've thought of a solution if we could just get everyone to agree to it. It's pretty simple.

We should give Israel some or all of our southern border with Mexico. If they could just release their attachment to that piece of desert over there they could have a bigger, nicer piece of desert here. Maybe George Bush would be willing to set aside a chunk of Texas? Or we might could figure out how to make a long strip of territory for them all along the border. Israel is not very big. Here is how it compares to California which is smaller than Texas:

map from http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps.htm

Wouldn't it be quite attractive for them to relocate to a larger, generally much more peaceful area where they would be more welcomed and appreciated? Of course, in exchange for our land we could have benefits too. Israel would do a fine, no really, an excellent job at providing security at this very vulnerable and disregarded border.

I know that the religious connection to Jerusalem is ultra-important to the Jewish people, but from a 'pure-bred' American point of view (referring to being descended from people who fled their home land for a better place) I must wonder if it is really worth all the fighting and death. Maybe the Jewish people will find their Messiah who will show them a New Promised Land? You know, something's got to give. I think it's time for all of us to rethink the way things are and the way they could be. If things stay on the course they are on now all of these men are going to insist on bringing their own religions' prophecies into being. It doesn't have to be that way. Could George Bush be the New Messiah? Maybe if he could convince Israel to move to a better place. And any Americans who gave up their land for the sake of Israel would surely be highly compensated with money as well as renown. It's just a thought.

Yeah, I know, dream on...

30 comments:

Rainypete said...

If you put them in texas they'd probably just start fighting with New Mexico. It hink it's just habit for them now.

e4c5 said...

We do have a lot of space in West Texas. I can see some definite possibilities there.

Rae Ann said...

rainypete, yeah, but I'm thinking maybe they would be okay with fighting with Mexico instead.

e4c5, yeah, I wish I had found a map of Texas and Israel compared. It really wouldn't take much of Texas away from anyone.

e4c5 said...

I hope you don't mind, I linked your blog I was so impressed.

Rae Ann said...

e4c5, wow, thanks! That's cool by me. I'll be around to your blog too.

L. Riofrio said...

Rae Ann, thank you for your supportive comments! Women have to fight for our rights at every turn. The current world mess has a lot to do with keeping women in the burqua. Sometimes we have to stand up even when it gets some angry.

Thanks also for fighting those on Reference Frame who commented that 9/11 was faked. That shows how the intelligent can go unhinged. It also cast doubt on some in the "peace" movement. Like Gunter Grass, there could be Nazis in sheep's clothing.

DHammett said...

Great idea, Rae Ann. I'd cure welcome the Israelis and their capabilities along our southern border (or pretty much anywhere else for that matter). Funny...just yesterday I heard a comic on the radio talking about his solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict being moving either group to Las Vegas (another desert)and re-creating their homeland in the style of the theme park casinos. It was tongue in cheek, of course, but funny how great minds think alike.

DHammett said...

Er, I'd sure welcome the Israelis...

Rae Ann said...

Louise, thanks! Yeah, I think that is my worst nightmare that somehow the radical Muslims would gain enough control that we'd all be subjected to living that way. Sometimes Freedom is difficult, but it's so much better than the alternative.

dh, that's really funny that someone else had a similar, though much funnier, idea. I'm actually kind of serious here. It really would solve many problems on many different fronts. But last night after posting this I worried that this idea might be offensive to people. And it is definitely radical.

Seven Star Hand said...

Hello Rae Ann and all,

Hope this is not too off topic for you. You seem to be seekng to understand the truth about religion and how we now find ourselves in this deep "pit." Be patient and I'll amaze and enlighten you beyond what you might have expected.

Understanding the Fatal Flaws in Judeo-Christian-Islamic Prophecy

Remember the saying that "the truth will set you (and others) free?" How does "opening one's eyes to the truth" relate to "making the blind see again" or "shining the light" or "illuminating a subject?" Notice the inherent symbolism associated with this supposed New Testament "miracle?"

As certain world leaders strive to instigate a fabricated "battle of Armageddon," it is vital to understand and spread the truth about these ancient texts to help bring about an end to such abominable evil. You can never expect philosophies based on lies and great error to lead to peace and harmony. How many more millennia of terrible proof is necessary before humanity finally gets a clue that most have been utterly deceived by the very concept of religion.

Without it, Bush, the Neo-Cons, and their cohorts could never have gained and retained political power by manipulating an already deluded and susceptible constituency. Likewise, their thinly veiled partners in crime, Bin Laden and his ilk, could never have succeeded in their roles in this centuries-old Vatican-led grand deception.

We are all trapped by a web of deception formed by money, religion, and politics. The great evils that bedevil us all will never cease until humanity finally awakens, shakes off these strong delusions, and forges a new path to the future.

Read the article here...

Peace...

Rae Ann said...

Seven star hand, with all due respect (and God really should forgive me if I'm wrong because that's just the nice thing to do), how do you know that *I'm* not the New Messiah? Any of us with delusions of grandeur can let on like we are. But I have to hand it to you because you're really getting into it and working it. And that takes guts whether you're for real or just another crazy.

CapitalistImperialistPig said...

Rae Ann,

I liked your idea and have proposed a more specific location on my blog.

QUASAR9 said...

Rae, cracked it in a nutshell.

Israelis & jews live in New York
israelis & jews live in Berlin
Israelis & jews live in London
Israelis & jews live in Tokyo
Israelis & jews live in Amsterdam
Israelis & jews live in California
Israelis & jews live in anywhere

This obsession to displace and make homeless 6 million Palestinians (or arabs)...

so that jews can have a homeland to run to, in case they are ever persecuted again ...

No longer holds water
it is no longer a convincing argument it is hollow it is shallow

Here's wishing you a great weekend

QUASAR9 said...

PS - CIP your second proposal to Rae's is a good one.

Of course a third proposal could be just about any state in the US which has a population smaller than 6 million.

Instantly doubling that states population, Income Per Capita, and prosperity, ...

Instead of wasting so much time hot air & energy destroying the Palestinian economy, the Lebanese economy - and whoever else, and living in a perpetual state of fear from their 'arab' neighbours

Rae Ann said...

cip, wow, thanks!

Q, let's not be too harsh with the Israelis. David suggested a couple of rural counties here in TN when I told him my idea. They would be much nicer than a desert, though I personally like deserts. And if Iran or whoever tried any funny business we'd, of course, have to nuke them.

Have a good weekend too!

DHammett said...

Whoa, Qaeda, er, I mean Quasar -

Weren't the Israelis given the territory they currently occupy as their country by the United Nations after World War II? And their claim to the area goes back as far as the Arab claim.

And, unless I'm mistaken, there are Arabs/Muslims living in New York, Berlin, London, Tokyo, Amsterdam, California and anywere as well.

Can you imagine living in a confined area knowing you're surrounded by nations determined to see you destroyed? Suppose you open your homeland to the Palestinians and keep your anti-Israel diatribe to yourself. Unless, of course, you're afraid of the terrorist activities nice people like Hamas seem to bring with them.

Martin said...

it's helpful to consider such ideas.
I heard about your proposal from the blogger named
Capitalist Imperialist Pig, who has a seriously good heart plus a sense of humor.

I made a thread about it at a little message board I know, jst to spread a few seed in case one takes root.

nice blog

Rae Ann said...

martin, thank you! I like cip even though we don't agree very often. I took a peek at your forum thread. People are welcome to post comments here if they feel so inclined.

QUASAR9 said...

Hi dhammett,
it is not ant-Israeli diatribe
It is speaking my mind in a free democracy - if that means thinking different from you, it is My Right?

Right - or are you a fascist despot

QUASAR9 said...

I am saying if there is No God, and Israel is a secular state

It has no claim to land promised to them by a non existent God.

As to conflict.
The conflict, without going back thousands of years, and the Torah recorded legend of Joshua and the 12 tribes croosing the Jordan into the 'promised land' - and yet never wholly occupying owning it or wrestling it from 'natives'

The present conflict starts with a jewish terrorist attack on the British Army Palestine headquarters at the king David hotel in Jerusalem.

I am saying most jews are happy go lucky people living in peace wherever in the world, but have a dual personality (not nationality) complex which drags them into supporting the conflict and ownership of a peace of land in the Middle East. A piece of land which would fit neatly into California or any other US State, as Rae has pointed out.

So who do you think is going to nuke who first. Who has set historical precedent for nuclear strikes. Do you see me worry about it brother.

And if you dare say you are not my brother, you are proving my point that you are not Christian brother but some fascist racist and false supremacist or hegemonist. capice

DHammett said...

Q -

God aside (and I believe in Him from a Christian perspective), as I noted, the secular UN gave Israel the land they occupy after WWII. Furthermore, Israel lately has unilaterally been giving up land they have won in wars since 1967 in an effort to secure peace around them. And how have they been repaid? By having both Hamas and Hezbollah, two groups acknowledged as terrorist groups by the world community, attack Jewish military checkpoints inside Israel, killing some soldiers and kidnaping others. Iran's president has come out and said that the Jewish people should be eliminated from the face of the earth and that the holocaust never occurred.

What we're dealing with here, my friend, is facism on the part of Muslim extremists (note that I'm not saying all Muslims) that is determined to see the end of a creed of people. And, frankly, they're not too fond of Christians, either.

Regarding nuclear strikes, of course you know that the US is the only nation to have nuked anybody else. And it brought about a quick end to WWII, a war we were brought into by virtue of a despicable sneak attack on our territory, arguably saving many more lives than those lost. After the end of the war, the US went to great lengths to rebuild the countries with which it was at war, much like we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan today. With British help, no less.

I'm not sure I understand your question of who will be using nukes first. However, I think it is clear that the radical Muslims have shown that the taking of innocent life, something abhorrent to those of us who consider ourselves civilized, is something they do without compunction (heard of suicide bombers, the attacks on Spain, London, New York and Washington, etc.?). On that basis, if Iran, who has been supplying arms to Hezbollah, is allowed to develop their nuclear program, it would not surprise me to see them deploy nukes to destroy Israel. Israel has had the capacity for decades and has resisted their use. Does that answer your question?

Capisco. Do you?

QUASAR9 said...

dhammett

brother fights against brother
christian fights against christian

US americans are killing each other every day and hate their neighbours or ex-lovers in USA

muslims fights muslims

the only cohesiveness in Israel is fear (and hate) of arabs and 'murderous' muslims, but as you've pointed out not all arabs or muslims are murderous terrorists. There are probably less murderers in the 'arabworld' to give it a name, than in US prisons or death row

the only cohesiveness the US americans have is from an attack by a 'ghost' enemy. A terrorist is not a military enemy or cause for a military campaign. A terrorist is a terrorist and should be regarded and dealt with by the police as any other police matter.

Noy as an excuse for invading Afghanistan, Iraq, or ... Lebanon.

I have no conflict with you brother. But that does not mean I have to implicitly support Israel, the State or Israel the people or Israel the religion,

ant more than I would implicitly support the decisions of the US Administration or indeed Tony Blair.
It is my right to express dissent, depriving me of that right makes you or whoever a fascist despot.

Now you have your preference in usic and I have my preference in mine. we may share some common ground, but I would not presume to insist my preference in music is better than yours, and pro-israelis should not expect or insist I support their preferences.

The whole world is God's land
The inheritors are peace lovers
not some genetic group or hegemony.

Anyone who claims otherwise is a false prophet and false inheritor.

QUASAR9 said...

Now let me wish you and everyone a peaceful Sunday!

I fear no nuclear strike, not from north korea, not from Iran, not from Pakistan, not from India, not from Russia, not from Palestine, not from the US

I refuse to live in fear of nuclear strike or any other sh*t the media can wip up. And if I really believe in an afterlife what have I to fear from death, unless I have doubts or worse I'm a hypocrite

Now let me wish you and everyone a peaceful Sunday!

DHammett said...

Q -

Who are you to determine "the only cohesiveness in the US or Israel, or anywhere else for that matter? There are many ties that bind a nation.

And you're wrong. A terrorist enemy can be a military enemy. Hezbollah has set themselves up as such. They've become a political entity by asuming posts in the Lebanese government and using those posts to further their terroristic goals. Furthermore, the government of Lebanon has let Hezbollah reign untethered in southern Lebanon for years. They've grown more and more audacious, culminating with their attacks on the Israeli military which led directly to this conflict. And they have been getting military weapons - missiles - from Iran and Syria, using them for attacks on the civilian population in Israel. Same with Hamas. Sounds like military methods are necessary to me. Ridding the earth of this scourge by any method is a good thing.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's patoot whether you personally support Israel, the Arab community or Mars. But don't come here and throw up nonsense like "The present conflict starts with a jewish terrorist attack on the British Army Palestine headquarters at the king David hotel in Jerusalem" or "most jews are happy go lucky people living in peace wherever in the world, but have a dual personality (not nationality) complex which drags them into supporting the conflict and ownership of a peace of land in the Middle East" and expect us to sit here without challenging it. Get your facts straight. If you want to offer an opinion, then be clear that it's opinion.

Nobody's telling you to live in fear of a nuclear strike (you brought up that thread), but if you think that terrorism poses no threat, tell it to the thousands who lost their lives at the World Trade Center or, better, the thousands more who nearly lost their lives from the planned attack that our governments just jointly thwarted. Thanks to our governments, you can have a peaceful Sunday.

QUASAR9 said...

dhammett

I am not determining anything. I am only making a statement of fact.

Internal wrangles in England were set aside by the threat of a foreign military enemy or invader -
whether Spain or France ot whoever

Internal problems in the USA, and you have just as many if not more social problems in the USA as any where else, are glossed over by keeping the attention focused on wars abroad.

These people are still trying to win the korean war, they lost the vietnam war. Name the only two countries that have been engaged in conflict, military occupation and war non-stop since WWII

QUASAR9 said...

Peace & Peace of Mind, more important than piece of land - Except both sides want the same piece of land - and neither side seems willing to co-exist in peace. There is no good keep kidding ourselves.

The problem is not terrorism which kills less people than traffic accidents.
The problem is one side won't let the other side build a future, with the implicit blessing and support from Bush and the USA.

One side with all the military hardware is not interested in conflict resolution but conflict the end game being the removal of palestinians from 'their' land.

Now how can people living under that cloud have peace of mind.

Does it matter whether the land is called Quango or Mango.
What matters is to realise that 12 million people can live in New York, 12 million can live in London, 12 million can live in Tokyo, so where is the problem with 12 million living in Jerusalem.

Unless you really are fascist, racist, supremacist & hegemonist - and underneath all the niceties what you really mean is only 12 million jews shall live in Jerusalem.

Now which false God said that.
Wake up america, open your eyes.

QUASAR9 said...

"The present conflict starts with a jewish terrorist attack on the British Army Palestine headquarters at the king David hotel in Jerusalem" or "most jews are happy go lucky people living in peace wherever in the world, but have a dual personality (not nationality) complex which drags them into supporting the conflict and ownership of a peace of land in the Middle East" and expect us to sit here without challenging it. Get your facts straight. If you want to offer an opinion, then be clear that it's opinion.

Those ARE The Facts

That and the recorded legend in the Torah of Joshua and the 12 Tribes - and the unsuccessful attempt at ethnic cleansing. Yes ethnic cleansing of the peoples who inhabited the land.

Of course they were not the first. But haven't we seen the last of ethnic cleansing yet???

Ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing regardless of which side thinks it has a "god given right" or moral right or racist right or legitimate right or whatever other false right

Rae Ann said...

Q,

"What matters is to realise that 12 million people can live in New York, 12 million can live in London, 12 million can live in Tokyo, so where is the problem with 12 million living in Jerusalem."

I think you have to remember that in New York, London, and Tokyo there is the kind of freedom that the radical Muslims hate and are fighting against having in the Middle East.

QUASAR9 said...

Hi Rae, I know!
People have all sorts of personal or emotional reasons that they add to support their claims.

I'm not wanting to argue with anyone, not on Sunday or any other day. I just gave 'my im-personal opinion' which dhammett agrees I can have.

Peace! Shalom!
Salam Aleikum!


and if I knew how to say it in anymore languages I would.
Here's wishing you a lovely Sunday.

DHammett said...

Q -

I'm finding it's a waste of time trying to talk sense with you. You make blanket statements without any support for them. "One side with all the military hardware is not interested in conflict resolution but conflict the end game being the removal of palestinians from 'their' land." ??? I mean, come on. You said it...back it up. It's the radical muslims who are determined to see the death of all of us infidels.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, as are the rest of us. We just choose to support ours with facts.

Traffic accidents, which tragically kill more than terrorism, as you point out, are just that...accidents. Hard to compare those apples with the oranges of suicide bombings, missiles directed deliberately at civilian populations and the downing of planes full of innocent civilians, the bombing of night clubs and so on.

Sorry, comparing a country fighting for its survival in a place handed to them by those in authority to do so, with groups of ill-intentioned, hate mongers like Hezbollah and Hamas doesn't hold water.

And about "Unless you really are fascist, racist, supremacist & hegemonist..." Save it for somebody who cares that you can use 2-bit words.

Pax vobiscum. :-)